Pathfinder 2e Detect Magic Vs Read Aura
Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder two Detect Magic & Item ID ?
- Thread starter Amatiel
- First appointment
- #1
I am having troubles with the mechanics as written. Any clarification would be appreciated.
Arcana Skill - (Identify Magic): In one case yous discover that an particular, location, or ongoing effect is magical, you can spend an hour
to attempt to identify the particulars of its magic.
How practice you notice if an item is magical so you can identify it? Using the detect magic cantrip would appear equally information technology is written that it doesn't really tell you if an item is magical or not; just its general location down to a 5'cube - and that is as a 7th-level caster !
Find Magic Cantrip - Area thirty-foot aura.
You ship out a magical pulse that registers the presence of magic. Y'all receive no information beyond presence or absence of magic.
Heightened (3rd) You learn the school of magic for the highest level magical effect inside range that the spell detects. If multiple
effects are equally strong, the GM determines which you learn.
Heightened (4th) Equally 3rd level, but yous likewise pinpoint the source of the highest-level magic. Y'all don't learn the exact location but tin narrow down the source to within a five-pes cube. If the source is larger than that, you lot identify but the cube nearest to you.
- #2
So the 1st level version tells you there's magic somewhere within 30' and that's it? That'southward not far from useless.
And information technology'south going to become completely useless once y'all yourself starting time carrying whatsoever magic items; and fifty-fifty if information technology gets worded such that information technology ignores what you-the-caster is carrying you'll still demand to get your fellow adventurers with their magic items to stand 31' abroad from y'all when you bandage it.
Bleah!
- #3
So the 1st level version tells you lot at that place's magic somewhere within thirty' and that's it? That'south non far from useless.
And it'south going to become completely useless one time you yourself start carrying any magic items; and even if it gets worded such that it ignores what yous-the-caster is carrying you'll all the same need to get your fellow adventurers with their magic items to stand up 31' abroad from you when you bandage it.
Bleah!
I believe the cantrip lets you ignore all magic you're already aware of.
- #four
Here's the starting time two paragraphs, which OP merely partially quoted:
Discover Magic said:
You send out a magical pulse that registers the
presence of magic. You receive no information beyond presence or
absence of magic. You can cull to ignore magic yous're fully aware
of, such equally yous and your allies' magic items and ongoing spells.You discover illusion magic merely if that magic's issue has a lower
level than the level of your detect magic spell. Notwithstanding, items that
accept an illusion aureola but aren't deceptive in appearance (such as
an invisibility potion) typically get detected ordinarily.
- #v
I remember the goal is to keep people from stopping the game at inopportune times (like in the center of exploring a dangerous area) trying to figure out particular specifics, and shifting this to downtime. I have seen players earlier monopolize table fourth dimension insisting on ID'ing every thing magic they find at the time they find it, which slows downwardly the game a bit.
the Read Aura cantrip works a petty meliorate, but it only tells you the school of magic. It withal takes grooming in Arcana to properly inspect items.
- #6
Detect Magic said:
You lot send out a magical pulse that registers the
presence of magic. You lot receive no data beyond presence or
absence of magic. You can choose to ignore magic you're fully aware
of, such as you and your allies' magic items and ongoing spells.You detect illusion magic only if that magic'south effect has a lower
level than the level of your detect magic spell. Still, items that
have an illusion aura but aren't deceptive in appearance (such as
an invisibility potion) typically go detected ordinarily.
OK, that seems marginally better...but still pretty weak.
I hope there's other means provided of detecting magic that are considerably more precise, such that a caster can notice the i magic jewel in a bag of 25 otherwise-identical gems without having to put the gems 31' apart from each other and casting this 25 times... Same goes for a treasure hoard - a arrange of plate mail, a shield, a helmet, a longsword, a shortsword, a quiver of arrows, a bow, a vial, a rolled-up piece of parchment, a ring, an amulet, three gems, a bracelet, a golden cup, a statuette; all masterwork and there's magic in there somewhere. The college-level versions can narrow it downwards a chip but are still kinda pointless, leavning no real alternative but to scoop up absolutely everything you find and sort it out once back in boondocks.
The usefulness and value of Bags of Holding merely went up big fourth dimension.
- #7
Realistically, though, isn't this what adventurers would practise if they had the run a risk? These items they're finding might exist useful correct at present for the electric current mission...or might exist cursed; better to trigger the curse now, if possible, in a more controlled situation than to have the curse suddenly manifest in mid-combat.
What this does is merely change what the table fourth dimension is spent on: instead of being spent on field-testing items known to exist magical it'll be spent in trying to decide whether things are magical at all.
- #8
Realistically, though, isn't this what adventurers would practise if they had the gamble? These items they're finding might exist useful right now for the electric current mission...or might be cursed; better to trigger the curse at present, if possible, in a more than controlled state of affairs than to take the curse suddenly manifest in mid-combat.
What this does is merely change what the table time is spent on: instead of existence spent on field-testing items known to be magical it'll exist spent in trying to determine whether things are magical at all.
While true, information technology also tin can irksome down play dramatically - instead of focusing on the objective at hand, in exercise I've seen players basically treating a dungeon like an antiques roadshow. 
It's one place where realism can sometimes sacrifice fun at the table for players besides the wizard. Information technology actually got bad enough in our dwelling games that nosotros instituted our ain business firm rules nerfing find magic into a 1st level spell, just to continue people from doing it every fifteen feet. Every bit a result, this change wound upwardly setting very well with us.
- #ix
While true, it besides tin ho-hum down play dramatically - instead of focusing on the objective at hand, in practice I've seen players basically treating a dungeon like an antiques roadshow.
Observe Magic just shows something is magical. What I'd practise instead is do away with car-identification of an item's properties past a uncomplicated Arcana check, and instead make it that an detail'southward backdrop tin can only exist determined through actual field-testing (east.g. to test for h2o-walking you stride into a puddle and see if yous sink in or not) or repeated in-combat apply in the case of weapon, armour, and shield. The fall-back could be ye olde Identify spell, which 1e D&D did a nice job of making both expensive (100+ g.p. pearl consumed equally M component) and impossible to cast ofttimes (caster's Con reduced past eight, recoverable ane point per hour) - worth a look.
Final edited:
- #10
Reading the spell, nowhere does it really reveal what is or is not magical. That is my point. How do you lot determine what is magical so you tin ID it or even detect it in the start place; because observe magic never actually reveals what is or isn't a magical item, only its full general location.
- #xi
Read Aureola tin can distinctly ID an item equally magical - only you have to target the detail beforehand, and it takes ten minutes.
And now that you mention it, Detect Magic has to go to 4th spell level (so, 7th level) earlier you get-go specifically IDing the area a magic particular is in.
Boy, they REALLY desire to brand that difficult! Perhaps it shouldn't be quite THAT difficult...
- #12
OK. I hadn't noticed read aureola earlier. Think I empathise how it works now. Notice magic allows you to determine if magic is in a certain surface area, and at lvl 7 you can narrow that downwardly to a 5-ft square. Wooh! LOL
Then you use read aura on everything in the 'area' until y'all determine the detail(southward) that are magical.
So... you tin can use Arcana or its equivalent to ID the item yous have constitute. ROFL. Holy moly they have not made that easy!
- #xiii
I suspect that this new manner of detecting magic items will exist heavily houseruled, because it's clearly bogus and confusing.
- #fourteen
If left as is. Simply recollect this is merely the playtest stage - there's still time for these things to be fixed.
- #15
If left every bit is. Only think this is just the playtest stage - there's still time for these things to be stock-still.
Stuff like this I can see them fixing. The more glaring issues I have with the system, like class siloing, the sorcerer, and Resonance, I can't.
- #16
A lot of Paizo adventures have treasure tucked away in odd places. Finding this loot is a minigame in itself. Or it ought to be - in almost every example some magic is involved, so a quick Detect Magic bypasses the search. I recollect the new Detect Magic is to get dorsum to some searching - either New School with die rolls, or Old Schoolhouse where you lot actually say what you practise to look. Both are meliorate than the Detect magic bypass.
- #17
Fair enough, though if you house-rule that any bulwark thicker than a piece of material will completely block Detect Magic then you withal get the search game whatsoever time the treasure isn't sitting out in the open.
Once you've institute the treasure, however, there actually needs to exist some functional-here-and-now way of determining which pieces are magical and which aren't. Could be a spell, could be a racial or class feature, whatever.
- #18
this thread was from the playtest
Returning to this field of study, don't you experience having unidentified items just waste product playing time?
When I GM, if the looted item is a bog-standard item unchanged from the CRB, I just tell them what they have institute - no checks necessary.
Also, in many cases I want them to know what the item does. Having the rules prescribe a ten-minute activity and a cheque that can neglect just sucks.
Apparently I can and exercise houserule this, simply in that location really should have been a mention of this. As the CRB is written, yous absolutely cannot understand a magic item without ten minutes and a successful check, and that's restrictive for certain styles of play.
I realize at that place needs to be a provision for the example when the detail shouldn't exist easily revealed. I mean, not having a spell like Analyze Dweomer that players can use to bypass a (cursed) item's defences, is a good matter.
- #nineteen
If PCs are stopping regularly to Refocus and Tend Wounds, having one of them spend some time to Identify Magic is not much of a cost. It only requires existence trained, and then the party tin can coordinate who does what to minimize downtime.
Being able to fail the check is a thing, only i could say that of knowledge checks in general. I'd allow PCs utilize a magic detail without identifying it when it made sense (such as when activation is part of another activity, like using an unidentified magical sword to Strike a fauna), but I'one thousand inclined to proceed the check.
- #20
If PCs are stopping regularly to Refocus and Tend Wounds, having ane of them spend some time to Identify Magic is not much of a cost. Information technology only requires being trained, so the party can coordinate who does what to minimize downtime.
Being able to fail the check is a thing, but one could say that of knowledge checks in full general. I'd let PCs use a magic detail without identifying it when it made sense (such equally when activation is part of another activity, like using an unidentified magical sword to Strike a creature), but I'thou inclined to keep the check.
Well, not really (and this goes to a core outcome I have with PF2).
Either the decision to take ten minutes to recuperate is a meaningful one, and there are consequences for taking it: a chance of wandering monsters, or that the princess gets eaten, or whatever. There is a real cost to taking each 10 minute menstruation, and then yous want to take as few as possible while still non entering the next fight hobbled by injury.
Or, the determination doesn't affair much, considering you accept lots of time. Say, one hr hither or there doesn't matter much. But in this case - why take all these little rules, with a myriad of check DCs, modifiers, and effects of actions? Why non simplify away all the decision-making and all the die-rolling and all the cluttery administration with a simple "a couple of hours subsequently, you lot're all back to maximum hit points" since that's what all dem rules atomic number 82 to anyway, you lot merely relieve a load of playtime for the exact same net result. In short, instead of spending your time checking skill bonuses, making rolls and calculation up healing, y'all could just... skip all that malarkey and get right back to the adventure.
This is relevant since each time the Cleric says "I need to Treat Wounds earlier I accept time to Identify Magic" you stop upwards in this state of affairs. Either your downtime management matters, in which case it sucks that Divine magic items accept a much lower rate of identification (in number of items identified per hour) than, say, Occult, which both the Ranger and the Bard are trained in.
But fifty-fifty if the political party had distributed their skill proficiencies differently, there's yet something inherently dodgy about "whelp, that'southward a 2 on the dice. Guess we'll take to sit around doing zilch for ten more minutes" (if retries are immune) or even worse, "whelp, that'south a 2 on the die. Approximate I'll write downwardly 'mystery object #14 on my grapheme canvas' giving me at least a adventure of remembering to check it out again once I have leveled up, fifty-fifty though I am fairly certain it'southward not worth the trouble".
Or, your reanimation doesn't affair, and y'all'd be a fool to roll the die instead of just having the GM say "information technology'due south a [insert detail name and CRB folio number here]" and become on with what's really fun: adventuring!
Source: https://www.enworld.org/threads/pathfinder-2-detect-magic-item-id.652908/
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